Jesse: It’s been thirteen years since the release of the original Handbook of the Navigator. I’m just wondering how things have changed or evolved since it’s original release to now. [2:02]

 

Eric: (laughter) Boy, that’s like saying—How many years has it been?

 

Jesse: Thirteen. [2:22]

 

Eric: Well, go back thirteen years and compare it to the iPhone. Thirteen years ago, I think the iPhone was maybe just coming out so we were still doing clamshell flip tops.

 

Jesse: iPods…

 

Eric: Escalate that up to where we are now and I’d say it’s probably beyond that. It’s really hard to say that because you have to keep in mind that at that time, I still feel—and I still feel today—that anybody who reads the Handbook of the Navigator is still going to be blown away. Forget version two. It’s that impactful and it’s insightful and it delivers a wow. Now, there were so many things that we were not ready to talk about, or I wasn’t ready to talk about. It wasn’t that I wasn’t ready; I wanted to. I did not feel that the people, in general, were really ready to relate to what I have to say and that, in itself, was a big decision maker. Number two, you’ve got to keep in mind that what’s in the Handbook of the Navigator, I had already created that content probably—Shoot, probably almost another fifteen year prior to that. So, you go back thirty years. There were already notes drafted and stuff like that already floating around that already was the essential content of that.

 

When we look at what’s in the Handbook of the Navigator today, it’s kind of like no-holes-barred in the sense that the big subject of today is really simulated reality and I was already talking about simulated reality probably more than thirty years ago, long before it became a topic or a subject, before the movie The Matrix came out. That’s documented. That’s out there. To me, I have always known spiritually that when you have these really old stories of either Vedic monks or spiritualists, whatever, in deep meditation, coming out in this proverbial state and saying, “Reality is but an illusion.” That is the matrix. That is the simulated reality. That is the burning thing in every spiritual seeker where we know something’s not right or something is off about the reality we exist in.

 

I wrote this when we launched Higher Balance, well over a decade ago, obviously about fifteen years now or whatever. At one point somewhere in that history, I wrote this thing that said, “Look, more or less, you can’t smell it. You can’t see it. You can’t hear it. You can’t taste it. You can’t touch it.” None of the five senses can interpret this nagging, gnawing sense in a White Cell that says, “There’s something more here,” and we’re constantly trying to figure out what that is. We know that there’s this call from—I’ll just call it what it is—God, the universe. We know this. We instinctively know this as well as we can use any of the five senses to define a chair or a book or a piece of music or anything. The question is, what are we sensing that knowledge with. It’s not any of the five senses. It’s combined a little bit with them to help search because that’s what we know. It is the hidden sixth sense. It is the proverbial ESP, psychic phenomena, call it whatever you want.

 

It’s been really mucked up and ruined by New Age teachings and this is from people who really, truly don’t understand what it is and they add colors and rainbows and crystals and all this other crap to it. This is why people who read this stuff, thinking maybe this is the answer, fail or don’t have the level of success that they thought they were going to have. You’ve got to throw all of that shit that they’ve added to it and mucked it all up and colored it all up and made it “foo foo,” and really get to the core of the true power, the true nature of it, the true thing. It comes from the human brain, just like the five senses do.

 

If you can go there and redevelop it, they’re profoundly powerful sensory. Sight is powerful, hearing is powerful if you really think about it. It’s only through the development of the sixth sense that you have that sensory developing that is able to transcend and move beyond the illusion of the reality that we’re in. It’s through that development that bridges you and makes you understand intellectually how you approach God, how you answer God, how you work for God. How do you answer this call? How do you dial into understanding something that you can’t smell, taste, see, or hear with the five senses? The sixth sense was made to have that relationship. We’ve been told our whole lives, spiritually, “Don’t pursue psychic phenomena. Don’t pursue spiritual stuff psychically,” but yet, every great mystic has shown that they utilized psychic ability or some kind of function of it. I mean, is this a contradiction on purpose? Is this a way to limit people from awakening? Why? Is it simply a fear of understanding what it is?

 

We have to develop the sixth sense in order to interpret the reality of what we truly exist in and move past the illusion. It is the sensory that is able to do that. In the Handbook of the Navigator, we talk about all of this. We talk about what God is, how God came to be, this whole idea that we’re not able to understand God and he’s so beyond us. No, look, you don’t have to fully understand something. You have to get a ballpark understanding and that’s a huge start. I believe that in The Handbook, you’re going to find that answer. I think that most people doubt that that’s possible. When people actually read it, they come back to me and they go, “This totally flipped my world upside down and it’s amazing! I never really thought. Yes, this makes perfect logic.”

 

What good is that, spiritually? The good of that spiritually is that you now have a level of liberation in your approach to understand what is beyond a simulated reality. What is beyond your human comprehension before you had access to that knowledge? Keep in mind that everything you know, everything that you are, every piece of humor about what you think about, what you think about, what makes you laugh, what makes you cry, what makes you happy. It’s slightly different than other people, maybe similar. At the end of the day, everything that you know, everything that combines to become who you are is based on your knowledge and experiences in your life. Wherever you are in the world defines your personality in some part by what is in that world where you may not have access to other things.

 

If you have access to beautiful music and you become enriched with a knowledge of this kind of music, this exceeds, probably, other people and vice versa. It could be art, poetry. It could be music, it could be athletic. It could be anything. How did you become who you are? Everything that you are was acquired through the data collection of one of your five senses and you combine them all, that becomes a totality of a picture in your mind of who you are.

 

If you see something that profoundly shocks you, you take it in from your sensory, your five sense, it’s interpreted, it’s internalized. It could change your whole view of the world literally overnight. Everything that you are is part of your five senses. If you have a sixth sense and it’s barely functioning, enough to tell you, at least a pulse to tell you there’s something more to all this, challenge it. Challenge reality. Imagine what you become when you embrace the idea of that sixth sense truly and you start to truly develop it to start interpreting information to add to your consciousness of who you are. Every White Cell I ever talk to, the one thing in common we all have is this feeling of incompleteness, this sense of, “Something is still empty in me that I need to fill. There’s a piece of something. Something is—” This is that empty piece.

When you feel that, you begin completion. It’s like, “This is what I’ve been trying to figure out my whole life.” It’s not the fact that it’s psychic, it’s about being able to finally attain information through that means. That’s what starts feeding the soul of, “This is what I’ve been craving.”

 

It’s not to say that a blind person is less intelligent than anybody else or a person that’s deaf is less intelligent. It’s not about intelligence. It’s about how their mind is developed and a piece of something that they don’t have access to.

 

Jesse: Right.

Eric: That is the challenge and this is a struggle. It’s an adaptation. It’s the same thing. This is what most people are trying to do. They’re trying to adapt to a spirituality and find ways to get answers to stuff but they’re doing it completely wrong and that’s what I call the New Age muck, machine.

 

Jesse: I think that a lot of—There are so many books and so much stuff out there about, “What is my purpose,” or “Where did I come from and everything?” In the Handbook of the Navigator, you go further into not only “where did you come from,” but where God came from. [11:50]

 

Eric: Look, I think people think that that can’t be answered. I think people hear that and there’s almost this knee-jerk religious reaction, psychologically, deep in you, no matter who you are. I would say this: Look, just consider the possibility that you’re capable of understanding something like this. If you read it, in your mind, you’re sampling. You’re testing. You’re moving thoughts around. You’re like, “Okay, let me try to work with this.”

 

When you have a working construct of God and you go, “Holy shit, eureka! This makes a kind of sense! This is actually intelligent! It’s logical! It’s scientific! It’s brilliant!” …if I can say that about what I have to say. There is a liberation in your consciousness that says, “I can approach this now.” God remains a mystery to identify. As long as it remains a mystery to identify, we’re constantly trying to grasp something that we cannot touch, smell, hear, taste, or relate to. It becomes this thing that is incomprehensible fully. By what I have to offer, it’s still profound. We have to have that revelation, I mean, it’s profound. You understand in a sense, more fully, how you’re connected to it, why and how it works, why you feel the way you do. It’s like this thing inside of you goes, “Now, this makes sense.”

 

It’s to say that if I believe in the concept of the Force and when I say the Force is everywhere, people say, “Well, God is everywhere.” It begins and ends for them there. Their intellect doesn’t know how to incorporate beyond that other than, “Well, God’s everywhere.” What is God made out of? How does God think? How does God function? How does God acquire data? How? “Well, we can’t know that.” Yes, we can! The answers I give answer that question and tells you and defines what the Force is. It’s like taking a step forward when you’re trying to focus your eye on a person in front of you to figure out what it is to find out what’s in the shadow a little bit. It’s not scary, it’s not good, it’s just something there. When you step forward, it’s almost like it begins to come into shape and you can begin to relate. Maybe your fear of what you thought it was or your contrivance or whatever begins to dissipate. You’re now like, “I now get it. I can have this better relationship.”

 

To tap into the Force, you must have a level of understanding of how to interact with it. You can say, “I feel the Force.” Good for you. Can you tell me anything about the Force? “It’s everywhere. It’s who we are. I am God. I am the Force.” Okay, that’s great. That’s so limited. You can know more. You can wrap your mind around this, trust me. I’m very good at breaking it down simply. Once you have that and you reflect on that, it changes your consciousness. It changes and evolves you to this higher level that you begin to relate to it and that’s the important part.

 

Jesse: It’s kind of like taking the intellect and kind of taking cross—having an effect where it’s like the sixth sense and the intellect are kind of matching up and wiring up that connection. [15:27]

 

Eric: Yes! It’s like when you meditate now, you kind of know how to direct your mind, what you’re trying to do, where you’re trying to communicate with God. How is going to communicate? You know you have in your mind an understanding of what the Force is, what it looks like, how it functions, why it is, where it came from, why it became, why the whole universe was created. Give me logical reasons. Don’t tell me it was made from fucking clay. Don’t tell me God’s got a beard and stuff, okay? I want the highest level of truth but I want the truth even if it scares me. I want the truth.

 

Jesse: Also on this note, a lot of people see Eastern philosophy as kind of the end-all-be-all. How is this information or this knowledge different than Eastern philosophy? [16:12]

 

Eric: Well, look, this is a touchy thing because some things become so sacred that you can’t, you’re not allowed to argue it. You’re not allowed to touch it. You’re not allowed to anything unless you have another spiritual view and you bash the other one. Look, I do think that Eastern philosophy is probably the more advanced knowledge on Earth in general. You’ve got Sufis, you’ve got Vedic teachings. This is the core by which most spiritual knowledge seeded the world but what happened, in my opinion, is people tried to understanding and decipher different languages or Vedic script and in that process, things are lost and misinterpreted. In this case, grossly misinterpreted. I think that a lot of simpler-minded people took these teachings and turned it into rainbow healing and colors to your rainbow chakra point. This is like a child trying to understand Edgar Allen Poe’s stuff and breaking it down from a five-year-old or a ten-year-old perspective.

 

It’s sad but this is why most people can’t attain the levels of spirituality. They’re like, “What am I doing?” You’re doing it wrong, that’s why. If you did it right, you literally would have experiences like we teach people to have all the time here. If you don’t have something happen, something’s wrong. You’re not doing something right or you’re missing something. It’s to say that I would say if I look at Eastern philosophy, there are so many schools of teaching: Hatha yoga, Raja yoga, Jnana yoga. It goes on and on and on. Brilliance, but at the same token, I think that even has a level of “mucked-up-ness” that came 5,000 years prior to that and it got lost and mucked up.

I think the people who did the work were not necessarily writers. I always say, “I’m not a writer. I’m a better talker than a writer, but better than a writer, I’m a teacher. Let me show you how to do it because one experience is a thousand books.” It’s like to say that I take issue with a lot of things. Let’s take the idea of reincarnation and living to work out your karma and you come back and you re-work it out again. Let’s look at this.

 

You’ve got a human body. The human body has various things that govern your personality and your emotions and your reactions. These are biochemicals. When you see something or you hear something and your brain reacts with it and you’re pumped with either adrenaline or different things to make you feel different ways and that makes you react physically, “Arr rah rah! Hey, hey!” or “Hi!” Whatever. It’s chemically-driven. The large majority of your emotion is chemically-driven. A lot of your decision-making is chemically prompted or pushed. When you leave your body, the question is: What are you? What are you made out of? How are you, as an intelligent being, functioning? It’s so human to think that we act like ourselves after death, or close to it. That’s like, again, saying that God’s got a beard. Think about it. No, it doesn’t work that way.

When you leave your body, you’re an intelligence. It’s collectively a kind of static energy of consciousness, of intelligence that’s kind of staying in a collective pool, if you will. You could say for our sake, “Oh, it’s like this energy glow,” or whatever you want to call it. The point is, you’ve just removed yourself as an intelligence from all of the biochemical, organic things that manipulate much of your personality, much of who you think you are isn’t really who you are as a consciousness once you remove yourself from this organic body. You can’t feel pain anymore. The five senses all drop out. All of these things go but all of the chemically-driven responses and reactions and different stuff to whether you’re stressed or not because your blood sugar is off or whatever it is, isn’t there. What are you? The closest thing I could say is to imagine it’s Star Trek and you’ve become Spock. You’ve extracted almost all of your flaws, in a way, or the things that contribute to your flaws.

To say that you’re more at peace is probably the greatest truth. Imagine that you don’t have sexual cravings because of procreation. You don’t have certain organic drives or even envy. What’s there to envy? There is nothing to own or buy now.

 

Jesse: Mhm. [21:09]

 

Eric: So, the idea that you’ve got to incarnate to get rid of your bad habits is, to me, a little bit off. We can work with it and probably get to a greater truth, which I do talk about, but it’s nothing like what people are believing in at least Western teachings. A lot of the Eastern teachings have already become watered down from that prime source. It’s that kind of stuff that concerns me and I want to get back to a simpler truth. I don’t want to talk about Eastern or Western philosophies. I want to use what I can as basic markers to give you that as the end result. What is the fastest route that I can give you this experience and you sit back and you think about what the fuck just happened to you? You internalize that, you process that. That is what changes you. It’s a huge amount of data. It’s a huge amount of information just like your five senses take in all the time. It changes how you perceive things. You mature very, very rapidly. I don’t know if that’s useful or not or if I’m just on a rant.

 

Jesse: No, that’s good. [22:14]

 

Eric: No more caffeine today.

 

Jesse: You say also in the book, you gave the analogy of the salmon swimming upstream. When I first read the original Handbook of the Navigator, I was thinking, “Wow, this awakening thing is not so simple. It’s not as easy as others are making it out to be and it really is a battle.” Other people say, “It’s this simple truth.” You really made it, you kind of made the point that this is a battle. Can you speak on that? [22:20]

 

Eric: Look, the salmon thing is—Anything you give as an example is always flawed because nothing can actually show you the real truth of experiencing something until you actually go through it. You can get a better idea and somebody can try to give you a very good idea where you’re like, “That’s the best answer I’ve ever heard and I can relate to that and that makes sense,” which is what I presume you’re saying.

 

Having said that, it’s to say that we live in a reality. I say that we have one foot in and one foot out. It’s to say that there is a part of us that understands that there is this other realm of consciousness. I would say that instead of calling it a spiritual realm or a fairy world or gods and goddesses or whatever, I would say that whatever is outside of our simulated reality is that realm. That’s what we’re feeling and with a very limited sense of knowledge, in a very crude way, primitive way, we try to interpret. Those who can feel it try to define and convey that but we paint the image just like we try to make God in our own image. This is where you get all of your metaphysical stories from, and all your ideas and stuff. It’s people not really trying to be cynical, they’re trying to define and describe something that, in my opinion, is beyond their intellect at this point.

 

The other foot that I say is in is in this reality, the realm we’re talking in now, the technology we’re using, whatever. This is an illusion. This is a simulated reality, in my opinion. So, I say, “One foot in and one foot out.” If you have your foot too much into pushing outside of this one, you’re going to have problems and vice-versa. You’re designed to be here. This is what your whole organic body if you will, is designed [to do]. This is what all of the anchoring points are, your five senses, your biochemical emotions. Everything that we talked about is designed to work with the energy in your body, this vessel that you’re in, and anchor you, lock you into it.

 

In essence, it’s designed so you’re here but you’re also trying to escape it. You’re trying to be and build a relationship with what you are beyond your organic self so you’re familiar with it. You get to know yourself again that’s not this convoluted structure of biochemicals and organics and liquids and all these things that are intertwining with you, saying they’re you. I always say, “There’s you and then there’s really not you.” I teach you guys to think in the second and third person and you observe yourself, just like having a temper tantrum or a fight with somebody, you’re already planning on slamming that door. What part of you is aware of you already planning to slam that door? It’s almost funny that you can observe yourself planning the strategy. You’re in a machine and that’s the machine part going through a routine. The point to answer your question is that you’re fighting in an organic body to awaken to understand what it is to be outside of that body while you’re in the organic body. This is not a simple thing to do. It’s not a simple thing to attain on a day-to-day level. When you’re inside of something demanding, you function in this reality.

 

So, the challenges of doing that, the challenges of awakening, the challenges of answering this sense that says there’s something beyond everything, it’s not simple. It’s not easy. It’s difficult. It’s challenging. You’ve got to acquire the right data to navigate your mind through all the treacherous things that come your way. To say that it’s simple or it’s made all warm and fuzzy if you’re just happy and whatever, I say to you, “Well, look at this history of these people and see where they are.” Why are there almost no enlightened people on Earth? All these teachers who claim to be enlightened, I don’t see any products coming from them that are truly enlightened. Why?

 

The challenges of awakening spiritually, in an organic or physical world that’s designed to keep your mind here—It doesn’t want you to escape out of it. What would be the whole point of having a simulated reality then? It’s very challenging and very difficult and it’s riddled with traps and such mechanisms to keep your consciousness smacked back down as soon as you start to evolve higher. You’ve got to know how to work around those things.

 

Jesse: Right. [27:23]

 

Eric: I don’t know if that works as good as the salmon one but I figured if I gave the salmon one, it’s like going old-school again, but it still rings true.

 

Jesse: Yup! [27:31]

 

Eric: It still rings true!

 

Katherine: Yeah. [27:32]

 

Eric: I’m just adding a whole new perspective to it.

 

Jesse: Yeah, it’s just…It almost can seem discouraging for maybe a newcomer. [27:35]

 

Eric: Yeah…yeah…Well, look, I think that there are people who are fighters and there are people who, very politely, I’ll say are not fighters. You’re either in-it-to-win-it, or you’re not. If you’re in-it-to-win-it, you roll up your sleeve and say, “Let’s go!” This isn’t going to be a one-day thing. It’s not going to be a ten-day thing. It could be a ten-year thing. It could be a twenty-year thing. It could be a thirty-year thing, which is true for a lot of devoted spiritual people. They’re eighty or ninety years old and they’re still working on that awakening.

 

I think that if it was easy, it wouldn’t be worth doing. I think that if you really feel it inside of you, this calling, it’s really the strongest of us that will rise to answer that call. I think other people will tap out at smaller levels and convince themselves they’re in a good place. It is what it is. I’m not here to talk smack on that or anything. All I’m saying is that I’m not here to do warm and fuzzy. I’m here to freaking awaken you and just show you revelation after revelation after revelation in your mind until you’re at the point where you’re just moving above and beyond that you’re experiencing true phenomena. Phenomena are data. The meaning of life is very simple. It’s to experience life. It’s to collect data. Everything in life learns, no matter what it is. It’s growing, it’s changing, it’s adapting, it’s constantly evolving. Why?

 

It’s data. If you run a simulated program, what is the point of running a simulated program? So it can just be a simple picture standing still? No, it’s about the evolution and how it’s progressing. If it’s not progressing, there’s no point in doing it. It’s learning. Learning is experience, everything in life. You’re constantly growing. I’m constantly growing. Everything is constantly changing and adapting, deteriorating and recreating itself, no matter what it is in this reality. There’s a reason behind all of that.

 

If you truly want the answers and you want to awaken, you’ve got to challenge yourself. If it was easy, you’re probably fooling yourself. It’s just like with spiritual knowledge. Sometimes I’ll say something and people go, “Oh my god! I don’t agree with that.” I believe that not everybody has a soul. I believe that evolution and atheism are right to a certain degree, that when people die, you become worm food again. You dissolve your body.

 

To a White Cell, we can’t wrap our head around that because we know, intuitively, that there’s more to life. That energy, that consciousness in your body, you train it to move outside of the organic body. If you don’t plan on that, if you don’t reflect on that, if you don’t work on that during your organic life, that’s a problem. Yeah, I’m just rattling on, I don’t want to—

 

Jesse: No, I mean that’s another big one. [30:36]

 

Katherine: So—[30:37]

 

Eric: Mhm.

 

Jesse: Go ahead. [30:38]

 

Katherine: A lot of times you talk about awakening or enlightenment as being this destination or this endpoint, but it doesn’t really end, I mean, you keep going, you keep experiencing. So, what— [30:40]

Eric: Absolutely. This is the problem: When people say they’re enlightened, there’s this part of me that has this knee-jerk reaction. There’s another part where people say, “Well, you’re an enlightened master.” You know this because you guys have been around me for decades now. I have this knee-jerk reaction. I hate being called enlightened because to most people, they think, “Oh, it’s this perfect state of mind and now you’re the master, the teacher, you understand everything.” No! No, it’s not true! I’m learning little things too!

 

Listen, if you’re an enlightened master, fix my car engine and rebuild it, if you know everything, If you know everything, rewire the house with the electricity. I’m not going to mess with the circuit breaker box. “Well, you know all things spiritually.” Really? Then everything in matter is still spiritual. None of this is real. I think that enlightenment is just a point by which you really understand the fundamentals of how everything kind of works. It doesn’t mean you understand everything but it means that you enter a higher level of understanding. You’ve matured. You’ve got your Ph.D. in an area, I would say. It’s progression of your consciousness expanding in the universe and you’re learning as much as it’s learning. You’re learning micro-things in comparison but there’s this evolution. I call it an enlightening process rather than to say that you’re just enlightened.

 

If I were to refer to myself as enlightened, it’s only to work with people that I feel—There are always some people who can think beyond that, but when you’re dealing with a group of people, it’s easier to say, “What is the medium level of intellect in the room and what can they relate to at this point?” If you say, “Yes, I’m enlightened,” they’re like, “Ahh.” They get it. I don’t know if that helps or not.

Katherine: It does, yes. [32:34]

 

Jesse: That was a question I was going to go into. I guess we say it’s controversial but we don’t really get a lot of controversy on it. You saying something like “Not everybody has a soul,” it actually seems to resonate with a lot of people more than you’d think. It doesn’t seem that a lot of people are like—[32:37]

Eric: Well, this goes back to saying there’s a simulated reality twenty, thirty years ago. When I said, “Not everybody has a soul,” thirty years ago, I mean, that’s like, “Oh, Lucifer! You’re evil! How could you say such a thing?” Look, I don’t say it to be cynical. I say it because it’s—Then I’m arrogant if I say the rest of it. I’m going to throw it in there and it’s because I know this. I believe that—Let’s say that if you look at the laws of incarnation, what they believe, and you crunch the numbers, without getting into it, the numbers don’t make sense. It doesn’t make sense. Some people say, “It doesn’t have to. There are other worlds and other lives and we transit.” Well, with that kind of thinking…alright. Great.

 

What I’m saying is that there are people out there who simply don’t give a rat’s ass about a soul, life after death, moving on. They don’t have that thing we have. It’s like this thing we have, we can’t shake it. It’s like the core of us. They don’t have it. They don’t have an interest in that. Now, does that mean they’re soulless? Let me explain it differently.

 

You’re in an organic creature made—Basically, when you look at the womb, you’re like this microbe that evolves within a womb and grows and grows and grows and [you’re birthed] and you collect data, you learn through your five senses, you become more sophisticated. At some point, you self-reflect or you don’t. Maybe everybody does but it’s this passing moment, a decision about whether you’re going to go to the right or you’re going to go to the left. Are you going to become a Red Cell or are you going to become a White Cell?

 

You look at your hand. Your hand opens and closes. You look and you say to yourself in the mirror, “Is this all that I am? Is this what I am?” There’s one part of you, a Red Cell, that goes, “Yup! That’s it! You’re this organic, fleshy machine made out of neural systems and everything else.” That’s that. You pursue a material life. You don’t really ponder the other part. While there’s a White Cell, they look at their hand and they open and close it. They see the robotics of it, they look at their body, they look in the mirror and that sixth sense, that little sense says, “Listen! There’s something more that is beyond your five senses. Trust me!” It’s like listening to the Force saying, “Just trust that there’s something more. You’re not skilled enough or powerful enough to really plug in on a bigger level yet but it will come if you find me. If you search me out, you will get this information but you have to grow with it. You have to—You’re in a place that’s designed not to allow this to happen but only the strong will push to this higher level.”

 

In essence, what is it that creates a soul? Self-reflection creates a soul. Your energy, your electrons, the electricity in your brain that’s generated from being a living organism begins to discover what I’ll call “Prana” which I call the energy in the air, just like there are plankton in the ocean. It’s small and it’s tiny and whales will collect a massive amount of it but it builds this body for them. We eat food to go from this little tiny organism in your stomach that’s become who you are now. That’s from an exchange of matter that you’ve digested, broke down, took energy from and different fuels, energies and stuff and assembled and kept building your organic body so you could explore this dimension. It fed your neural system, your everything. If you see that there’s an evolution beyond that or a co-evolution at some point that begins working with that, it’s when you start to reflect on yourself that that energy starts to build what I call “a second body,” a body that’s within you. Some people call it the soul, some people call it an astral body. Call it whatever you want. It’s another body that’s made from energy that you begin to feed on the Prana that’s intertwined with everything in this illusion in a way. When you feed that body, it doesn’t eat organic food, it feeds on “a spiritual food,” I call it. The Prana in the air, it’s an energy and I teach people to see it. You guys know, you’ve seen it.

 

Essentially, with self-reflecting, it’s like it tells these things to build in a certain way, just like your DNA designed your body and your eye color and everything else. You didn’t choose all of this. It did it intuitively but you had to eat, you had to fight to live, you had to have a desire to live. It’s the same thing and you had to seek out sources of people to nourish you. It’s the same thing spiritually. It’s the same thing. You build through contemplation. When you think about something in a sense, certain spiritual thoughts attract that Prana to you. It moves to you and very gently starts to build over time. So you build a vessel if you reflect on the vessel. If you meditate on it, it just gets stronger and better. If you’re thinking spiritual stuff, as you’re thinking about it, it changes your mood. You’re actually building the architecture and design of this energy body that houses what? What does it house? It houses your consciousness. It houses and holds together like magnetics kind of holding a forcefield, in a sense, a data of consciousness that you’ve obtained. If you don’t have that forcefield, if you don’t have this thing holding that information together, as I say, it’s like putting a puff of smoke into that wind. Your consciousness, all the data you’ve collected, dissolves into what I call “the Gaia mind,” the next level which is the collective consciousness of Earth. The planet is a living thing just like you. All of the microorganisms that collect data for you—and there are billions of them—all contribute their experience to you like a pool of water, like drops. It becomes your collective consciousness, of whom you say, “This is who I am.” It all shares and exchanges information in your brain and you see it as one consciousness but you’re made out of billions of piece all independent at the same time. Alisoné, all is one but yet it’s infinitely many. It’s a duality.

 

When you die, instead of your consciousness not having a mechanism to contain it, which I call a soul if you will, it disperses. This is where it gets into Red Cells or get into White Cells and you look for another host body if you will, to incarnate into and continue your exploration of this reality, this dimension, this simulated whatever. Am I boring you?

 

Jesse: No. It never gets old. It’s crazy. [39:16]

 

Eric: It’s good to remember the basics. These are the basics and you guys have been down the road a long time but it’s very important to always go to the Foundation of your knowledge and re-check it, re-tune up stuff, just like a building. If the Foundation is getting a little bit weak, you better shore it up or that’s called “not thinking about it.” The trick to awakening is to remember and be aware consciously of all the part that you know that are like the scaffolding to reach the sky until you reach beyond gravity. You begin to lift on your own accord into space in a way. When you’re not paying attention and you get so busy on the highest route instead of thinking about what’s going on down below, it’s a problem. You want to go faster, you’ve just got your eyes on the prize. You have to—That’s why I say teaching is so important, because it makes you go up and down the scaffolding as you continue to go higher.

 

Jesse: Oh, that’s brilliant. [40:19]

 

Katherine: You said that when we die, our data just dissipates—or in a Red Cell, the data would just dissipate. So— [40:22]

 

Eric: Well, it doesn’t dissipate, it moves into what I’ll call a different organism. I think the planet is an organism. I think the whole universe is living and it’s a neural system and that’s a whole other conversation.

 

Katherine: Okay, but we can access that using our sixth sense? [40:40]

 

Eric: Yes. To a degree, yes.

 

Katherine: To a degree, okay. So, if our purpose is to experience, is that why we have to be in a physical body because a lot of that data wouldn’t make sense if we didn’t have our five senses? [40:45]

 

Eric: Well, if you lived an organic life, you could relate, you could understand it. It’s just like when I explained the stuff I’m explaining to you now, it’s still in your mind, just piece you’re putting together: energy, thoughts, images but you’re just building it based on your previous experiences that you’ve attained through your five senses. You’re building a working model in your head without actually doing it. In essence, it’s a yes and no. We come into an organic body for a lot of reasons but putting it on the simple level, there’s always more than one answer. As energy, you have to ask yourself, “Why create a simulated reality?” There are so many reasons but let’s put it this way: What stimuli, what desire of growth do you have? There’s stuff that you can’t even relate to when you’re an organic body. It’s not something we can even bridge as an idea because we’re so geared into this mechanism that we are, this machine that we still crave the same thing: experience, knowledge, growth. It’s probably the most fundamental force in the universe but when you’re outside of that and you’re energy, there are no constructs as we understand in an organic body. There’s no matter, there are no buildings, there are no trees, there’s no interaction like what we’re doing now. There’s nothing.

 

A profound level to experience or gather data that never would have occurred to us is to incarnate into different lives, different worlds, different experiences and shut down whatever we would have known because it extracts the will to live. It extracts the need to survive. It extracts the experiences we could truly reach. In essence, we use this to experience and to learn and to grow. That is the meaning of life, to experience. When we’re outside of that, there is no structure as we understand it now. Why do you desire to travel the world? Why do you desire to go to new lands? Why do you desire to explore things? Why do you get bored at home and go (sighing), “I want to go out and do something.” It’s that innate drive to attain an experience of new things. When your energy and—There is no point of reference in the distance when you look. There is no up or down, there’s—

 

I’ve explained to you the Planes of Light, which are stunningly beautiful but it’s a different kind of beauty on an epic level but in an organic perspective, you can’t really experience that. From an energy perspective, you totally can integrate with it but even then, you desire to experience other things. I don’t know if that helps.

 

Katherine: It does because you’ve talked a lot about simulated reality in the past and when you really understand that, you have that moment of, “Well, what’s the point?” This explains it. At least for me, it helps with this. [43:42]

 

Eric: I think life is beautiful and I think it’s something that should be savored. It’s ironic because we sit there and we go, “Oh, I’m so bored.” Really? Well, let’s go in a moving car and jump out of it. You’ll have your blood pumping. It’s real easy to fix. But no, without any humor in there, life has purpose. It has meaning. The universe is learning through the function and creation of reality and its demise would prevent its own evolution, its own growth, its own awakening. If you look at a child, we know that in order for that child to truly grow, it needs proper experiences. It need proper access to stimuli, essentially knowledge and data. If you were to remove the amount of data that child gets, we all know what kind of happens. That isolation develops into a lack of intellectual growth and integration. You have to try to understand that the universe on a much bigger level, on a much more complex level, in a sense, is growing. We are part of that collective that’s happening and within it there are darks sides which are corrupting the data and trying to stop its process, which I’ve gone into great length to a certain degree. There is this desire to survive which trickles down to every living organism. We’re not all committing suicide or trying to. We, for the most part, have the desire to continue living, a strong desire. If we didn’t have that, there would be no data collection, so it’s necessary. There’s this struggle of energies constantly going on but it’s absolutely critical and important.

 

Jesse: How do you know when you’ve reached an awakening? [45:40]

 

Eric: I think that people often don’t know when they have an awakening. Sometimes I don’t know when I have an awakening. An awakening, in a very simple way, is an epiphany. It’s when you hit this level of finally getting something. It’s like you’ve been searching for this puzzle piece of a puzzle you’re building. You’ve been looking and looking for this corner piece or you’re looking for something that goes in the middle and you just can’t find it. All of a sudden, you find one. Then all of a sudden, you find two, three, four, five and you begin to see how it’s unfolding so you know what you’re looking for. It’s in that moment of realizing that you’re starting to see the picture come through and you’re starting to focus more on—Say it’s a tree with red leaves, you now realize, “Well, it’s not like all the other trees. That’s why I was looking in all of the wrong places.” You finally start to get the right color and you, in your mind, begin to understand it and you’re on a mad hunt to get the other pieces. It’s recognizing the moment of that elevated thought of realization that that is what you’re looking for. That is an enlightening moment. That’s a moment of your consciousness exploding to the next level because it’s now learned something fundamentally different than what you expected, than what you thought. That’s why I keep going back to things.

 

If I say or teach something and it doesn’t work with you the right way, like, “Everybody has a soul! That’s horrible!” Without you really considering what I’m saying, you’re really preventing your own awakening because you’re saying, “No, that’s not going to be red! No, it’s completely wrong. All trees should be green and tans and yellow maybe, but not that red. It doesn’t—” Now, you’ve stopped looking and you can’t really get that whole big picture that would have changed everything you thought. It’s a whole new realization. It’s a whole new level of comprehension and it doesn’t just end there. It’s applicable, just like a computer program written, it’s applicable in many other things, big and small. It changes how you integrate and understand everything. Every piece of spiritual knowledge that you gain is a key that is unlocking reality for your access. That’s how I really look at it. I don’t know if that helps or not to answer your question.

 

Jesse: Yeah…Yeah…Either smaller epiphany awakenings and then there’s bigger—[47:53]

 

Eric: Of course! There’s big and there’s small and there’s massive and there’s huge. Some will make you go so far that you’re going to question whether you need to calm it down a bit. Just for the record, you guys are asking questions for people who may not have those questions. I just want to be clear because people are wondering, “Why would they ask it if they’ve been learning from [him]?” You’re asking for them. It’s not like you’re relating your own experiences but you’re trying to help people who would be asking these questions who haven’t had your experiences.

 

Jesse: Yeah, absolutely. How important is this book to you or do you think that this book is—? [48:28]

 

Eric: Every book that I put out is important to me. I think that what’s important about this book is that when I still meet people and I look at what they understand—you know, spiritual circles—the first thing I realize is that they’re searching. I recently met somebody at a coffee shop and we got talking to this person and they were very excited to talk to me. I gave them a little bit about who I was and we were inquiring back and forth. There was a couple of us there. Right away, he pointed out this pyramid that he’s building outside that’s made out of copper. I looked out and I was like, “Alright.” He was talking about doing Tibetan bowls and things that they talk about spiritually. He’s like, “Oh, you’ve got to meet my friend. You’ve got to meet these things.”

 

You guys know this and anybody should know what I’m saying. It’s not to be arrogant. It’s to say that you meet people in life and there’s a level that your intellect is on the things you experience and part of that’s maturity and age. You look at where they’re at and you’re like, “Oh, I’ve been there. I’ve done that. I know totally what this person is feeling but that was like two decades ago for me. I’ve found all the answers they’re looking for.”

 

I’m thinking while this person is talking, “Ah, do I really want to talk about these simple things all over again for the umpteenth, millionth time?” I want that person to grow. I want to give them the answers because I was that person. I wish someone would’ve handed me the Handbook of the Navigator when I was twenty years old or whatever age I was when I began my search. It would have revolutionized my whole journey, my whole spiritual growth, my whole spiritual awakening on a profound level. It’s like getting twenty, thirty years of searching all compounded into one book that just—

 

People say, “How can one book give you thirty years?” This is where we’ve got to start talking and explaining to them that there are so many things that go unsaid that I wish we would say. We say there’s a mandala. A mandala is something the expands outward off of one design and it keeps curtailing into more based on that. It unfurls or it’s to say that you get a very compact sponge that they make into these toys that are really, really, really tiny. You drop them in water and the water expands them really big. Everything that I teach, everything that I’ve said in this recording is a mandala. As soon as you ponder it, your mind, like a computer program, takes this data that’s put into it and like a computer, make it into this holographic world that you can explore, a video game, call it whatever you want, knowledge.

 

You take this one book, I promise you, it’s going to unfold and expand. It’s obviously knowledge that each person’s going to have. It depends on where they are, but I can assure you, if you’re truthful, you’re going to find stuff that’s going to be like, “Wow, this is going to be a huge piece that I’ve been looking for.” I think that people that we’re looking for who really have looked at all of this stuff and say, “No, this is not right for me. This isn’t it. This isn’t it. This isn’t it.” That’s that Navigator in your chest. It’s that knowing, that nagging sense that tells you it’s pushing you in the direction to find it, God, the universe. When you read the Handbook of the Navigator, it’s an explosive amount of revelation that’s come from it. Hopefully, it’s a page-turner. Hopefully, you’re just reading it and your mind is having this enlightening moment over and over. With each page, it becomes an ecstatic state of consciousness. I believe that’s what the Handbook of the Navigator delivers. It’s up to that person if they feel the sense of, “Let me give this a run,” or if they flip through it. If they flip through it, they don’t get the same thing. You have to lay that foundation correctly. If you begin on the first page and you just read through, it’s only going to take a few pages for you to start to really want to get cranking on it. That is the true, correct unfolding of building a solid foundation to reach the universe.

 

Male Announcer: You can order Handbook of the Navigator, Version 2.0 by visiting handbookofthenavigator.com. Handbook of the Navigator is a manual to attain enlightenment through the necessary development of the organic sixth sense. It introduces breakthrough and revolutionary new concepts that go beyond traditional New Age ideologies, bringing Eastern philosophy into the technical age of today. Get your copy now by going to handbookofthenavigator.com.