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Forever - "ABC's Worst Decision Could Be a Big Win For Netflix, Hulu, or TNT"

26 May 2015

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It’s bound to happen at least once every television season. A network makes a bad call. This year’s baddest call is the cancellation of Forever. Fear not fans of Forever, your fellow fans have not taken this cancellation lying down, but they do need your help.

Alana De La Garza (Jo) & Ioan Gruffudd (Henry)
Even before Forever’s fate was known for sure, fans were already working on letting the network know how passionately they loved this show. The fans were instrumental in getting the show a full pick-up for the season through a letter writing campaign in the fall and the hope was to achieve the same success with renewal. See my previous article here. Sadly, ABC was too short-sighted to see the potential for this show. However, I wish I had a dime for every Forever fan who suddenly appeared in stunned disbelief in hearing that their new favorite show hadn’t been renewed! Star Ioan Gruffudd was equally surprised and reached out almost immediately to fans on Instagram.

Joel David Moore (Lucas) (photoshopped image - see his tweet to fans here)
The goal now is to have ABC change their mind or let another network – TNT – or Netflix or Hulu pick up the show. In case you think I’m just jumping on the bandwagon of my own personal favorite show, let’s look at some of the evidence that this cancellation was a bad call. Entertainment Weekly did a season end poll on viewers’ most missed canceled show. Forever crushed the list with 43.7% of the vote. The next show on the list was The Mindy Project at 16.47%, and that show has already been picked up by Hulu! Need a little more context? On the same list, Two and a Half Men only garnered 2.9%. We at SpoilerTV also ran a “Which Show Will You Miss the Most Poll” and Forever topped that list too with 27% of the vote – The Mentalist was #2 with 14%. Deadline pointed out how strongly Forever finished the season in the ratings: “The finale of freshman Forever (1.1/4), which has seen a 70% improvement in ABC’s Tuesday 10 PM performance, had a 10% rise over its last original of April 21.”

Forever had a tough spot with stiff competition from established shows in the 10pm Tuesday slot. However, for the finale, according to TV by the Numbers, “Forever tied CBS’ season finale of Person of Interest in Adults 18-49 and beat the CBS drama with Adults 18-34 and Women 18-34.” It was also hampered by the male-skewing, younger demographic of its lead in Agents of SHIELD. Forever consistently went up 1.0 in the demographic with DVR live +7 numbers. Other networks are taking these numbers into consideration, but ABC seems to be lagging behind. An older-skewing demographic might be very attractive to Netlix and Hulu who are looking to expand their subscribers past the younger-skewing cable-cutting generation. Netflix picked up Longmire, a show with a comparable audience and slightly lower ratings, in November of 2014 and is about to run its season four. When Netflix tweeted, asking fans which show they should pick up next, Forever “stood above the rest.”

Now more than ever before, shows are dependent on an International audience. So is Forever not a success in other countries? On the contrary, Forever is crushing ratings in France and gathering strong followers in the UK and Australia where whole new audiences are falling in love with the show – and clamoring for more! According to Le Top Buzz, Forever is #3 in France, and according to Public is averaging 6 million viewers! Keep in mind that the population of France is 65 million and the US is 320 million. In the UK, the season finale was number 6 of the top 10 rated shows that week according to TvGuide.

Graphic by Stephanie Emma Schoppert
Fans have primarily taken to social media to lobby for that second season. There is a petition that has garnered almost 50,000 signatures and is being supported by the likes of Anne Rice who is a fan of the show too. The petition has been signed by fans from 99 countries – so far! You can find the petition here. Sign it and share it! Fans are also holding Twitter parties to show support and bring attention to how much they want the show back. My main contacts for the campaign have been Deb Servey, Tonya Lindsey, and Lin Blank. Information on Twitter parties can be found through Deb Servey’s twitter or on the Forever Fan Page on Facebook.

Creator Matt Miller has been keeping fans in the loop as much as possible through Twitter. He let fans know the following “Nothing new to report at this moment. Show is actively being shopped by Warners. Stay tuned next week.” The Tweet was tagged to Netflix, Hulu, and TNT. All of the cast have been great about supporting the fans and letting them know that they are eager to continue with the characters they’ve created. This engagement by the cast and creator is another reason these networks should be picking up the show!

There are still a lot of reasons to believe that Forever will continue, and that’s one of the great things about television these days – viewers have options unlike any time in the past. Viewers aren’t forced to simply accept the bad decisions of a few network executives, and it’s never been easier to let the powers that be know what we really want to see on our televisions – or computers, tablets, or smart phones! It’s clear that viewers want more Forever! The network that is savvy enough to pick up this terrific show will have a built in loyal, active following who will continue to support the show and by extension the network that picks the show up. I suspect that any current viewers who don’t already subscribe to Netflix or Hulu will be doing so as soon as a pick up is announced.

With networks busy making decisions now, it’s more important than ever to get involved in the fan campaign, so don’t forget – sign the petition, tweet – and drop some love to the actors while you’re at it! – and join the Facebook page for all the latest information! Don't forget to share the petition with friends, family, and total strangers! Are you missing Forever? Will you follow it anywhere? Sound off in the comments and feel free to leave links to other ways to help save the show! #SaveForever



About the Author - Lisa Macklem
I do interviews and write articles for the site in addition to reviewing a number of shows, including Supernatural, Arrow, Agents of Shield, The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, Forever, Defiance, Bitten, Glee, and a few others! Highlights of this past year include covering San Diego Comic Con as press and a set visit to Bitten. When I'm not writing about television shows, I'm often writing about entertainment and media law in my capacity as a legal scholar. I also work in theatre when the opportunity arises. I'm an avid runner and rider, currently training in dressage.

173 comments:

  1. It really is a great series.I really hope it gets a 2nd chance.Fingers crossed!

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  2. Not gonna happen.

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  3. Loved season 1 and am sad that it got the can however....it actually had a satisfying ending. I wouldn't want that destroyed by another season that then would end on a cliffhanger to never be resolved.

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  4. yeah, my thoughts as well. It's a procedural, nothing a digital network would be interested in given the lack of a potential hook

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  5. I feel like this happens at least once a year, some show is allegedy getting shipped to other networks and then nothing happens and its not saved. Maybe I'm still bitter about the Happy Endings false hope of 2013.

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  6. I watched the show, but it was not the ABC's worst decision. It was low rated so as for the network it was good decision.

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  7. "Being shopped" rarely means more than some favours being called in to arrange a meeting that ultimately isn't going anywhere because no network will be interested in taking it.


    I'll be honest: the only show with a shot this year was Constantine due to WB having a stake in other networks. But Disney really only has ABC

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  8. Stacie❤❤❤25 May 2015 at 17:26

    Great article really hope that it gets picked up by someone else!

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  9. By that logic,Galavant & American Crime should've been cancelled first.

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  10. Thanks for the article Lisa

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  11. Galavant had truly terrible ratings...

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  12. This is a WB show as well.

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  13. Longmire and The Mindy Project are just two from this year that HAVE been picked up! Times, they are a-changing!

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  14. Right, but Galavant and AC were also ABC-owned, which unfortunately Forever was not. Much cheaper for the network to keep the other two.

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  15. American Crime will bring them award i guess. Galavant, no idea, probably because it is for only 8 20-minutes episodes. But renewing show without critical acclaim for another full season with these low ratings would be a mistake for them

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  16. Agreed. Here is a list of show that I remember being revived by other networks as well.

    Cougartown, Southland, Friday Night Lights, American Dad, Damages, The Killing, Futurama, Grounded for Life, JAG, Law and Order : Criminal Intent, Stargate SG-1, Scrubs, Medium, The Mindy Project

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  17. That is exactly Forever got the boot.

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  18. I have nothing against the show (watched 3 or 4 episodes and thought it was ok) and I salute you for trying to get your show back but it was a correct business decision from ABC as it was very low rated and from an outside studio.

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  19. Abraham Michaels25 May 2015 at 17:59

    If a network is gonna pickup a canceled freshmen series it should be Stalker.

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  20. I'm from Turkey and really love this show. Please save it.

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  21. Not sure how cancelling a show that had only one episode above 1.1 18-49 since its 7th episode a bad call and 9 out of its last 15 episodes had either a 1.0 or 0.9 rating

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  22. Goodbye Revenge, ∞x∞25 May 2015 at 18:09

    Even though I have yet to watch Forever, it seems like everybody loves the show and I hope it gets picked up !

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  23. I loved this show and would follow it to whatever network picks it up. I'm onboard.

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  24. I haven't watched yet but signed anyway. Good luck!

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  25. Jeani Watson Murtagh25 May 2015 at 18:21

    i think we are getting happen! don't hate! #ForeverSecondChance

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  26. I don't understand how cancelling it was ABC "biggest mistake". It was low rated, and they didn't own it so they get nothing from it. The ratings didn't even warrant a back-order, but ABC did give it 9 more episode for some reason.

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  27. American Crime is their best reviewed show in years, and Galavant has music sales, apparently.

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  28. I heard Galavant was renewed because of music sales.

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  29. Totally agree with what you said, it didn't even deserve a back order and ABC was gracious enough to give it that.

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  30. Wendy McKinley25 May 2015 at 18:31

    We love Forever & certainly hope it's renewed with any of the other networks, Netflix or Hulu. We have our fingers & toes crossed for luck!

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  31. Emmanuella Rhodes25 May 2015 at 18:34

    Excuse me one thing, there are far more people than you mention organizing Trend Times Twitter. And was not his original idea to do this. You already met some fans of The Mentalist and here comes the idea because now we are in love with FOREVER and ever

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  32. The musical sales made it profitable for ABC.

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  33. What's "Trend Times Twitter".

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  34. Karen Lowry-Thompson25 May 2015 at 18:42

    Have you guys actually watched the show? It's definitely NOT your every day procedural!

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  35. whenever people try to save a show it'll always grow into a personal fight. Let`s sit back and enjoy the show.


    Just sad that this has to be Forever, nasty things are going to be said about the show

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  36. Karen Lowry-Thompson25 May 2015 at 18:42

    Bring #Forever back! We want to see more of Henry's story!

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  37. Eh yes, all episodes with passion and it IS a procedural. New case each week, that's essentially what a procedural is.


    Sure it had the underlying immortality, Abigail and Adam arcs but every procedural has some motivational plot.


    Was Forever outstanding? No doubt at that. Would I have LOVED another season? Hell yes. Am I going to claim that it "should" get a second season against all odds? No. We live in a show-eat-show world that is based on numbers, not quality. It's unfair but that's the way it sadly is. I won't delude myself into thinking that it might return because hope is the worst thing you can have

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  38. Oh come on, we all know why it got renewed: it got some buzz when premiering and was hailed as the newest hit show so ABC tried to save face.

    TheCW did the same with Reign, hailed it as the best new drama ever and saved face by renewing it despite sh*tty ratings

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  39. Emmanuella Rhodes25 May 2015 at 18:53

    Be at a specific time respecting the time zones in the world and on Twitter a sentence with or without # write most of people together in the world at the same time

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  40. Yeah but both those shows had more than 1 season, I just find it unlikely that a low rated 1 season show would get picked up by someone else.

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  41. I agree it was a terrible decision, and I very much hope it gets picked up by someone with more foresight than ABC. ABC put in in their doomed time slot, and it was still picking up viewers at the end of season 1. It has devoted worldwide fans, and many of its viewers were not being counted if they were watching it online. I just know that this is one of those shows that will be huge with a better venue/time slot. I'll follow it anywhere even if it requires a subscription.

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  42. Sadly, but agreed on this. I loved the show (and if Warner's marketing is going to be successful I will be extremely happy), but blaming ABC because they cancelled a show which has almost the worst ratings in their portfolio, it's simply childish.

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  43. CrisTina Scordo25 May 2015 at 19:02

    Please bring "Forever" back or my TV is going out the window & my internet is getting shut down for good! Every single show I've watched got canceled. And now you are taking away "Forever'? That's all ABC had going for it to begin with. Just put "Forever" on another network or on Netflix and Hulu so that I can have at least one show about one dead guy that I actually like. That's hard to find for me. I'm meticulous when it comes to actors. I loth new actors with a passion. So this is very rare for me to be watching a show like this. If you don't bring it back, I won't have anything to watch on TV anymore. TV has really gone down in the past fifteen years. You're just making it worse by canceling "Forever". . . . OK I give up. Someone else step behind the podium and take the mic.

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  44. I just don't see that big of a need to rescue Forever. It's a WB project, so the natural second home would be TNT. However, TNT is now obsessed with "edgy" fare and the TNT of the past which would be a natural fit for Forever is quickly getting foolishly erased by Reilly's terrible direction and programming decisions. Simply put, Reilly is destroying TNT at every turn and there isn't a place for Forever there.

    Hulu/Netflix could be an option, but a one year show without a significant track record of ratings performance is a giant risk and one that I can't see them taking.

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  45. Community, Longmire, The Mindy Project, The Killing, Unforgettable...

    It's not entirely show-eats-show. If a project fits the needs of another network and is pulling down at least something positive in terms of numbers or demographics or cult following, it can get another shot. Forever fits that bill. There's still potentially a shot for it and the fact that it's procedural-y could actually help it. Those are bread & butter-type shows. I don't think it's a totally done deal that this show isn't coming back somewhere.

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  46. So it's not totally dead yet? That is good news. I hope it gets picked up. If only Stalker and Helix would follow suit. Good shows shouldn't be allowed to be axed so easily.

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  47. Both have cult followings with a lot of high social media stats.

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  48. Galavant is Paul Lee's favorite project. He pushed it through. There isn't a mystery there.


    American Crime was Paul Lee's ego also. He thought it would be a huge game changer, moved it personally to Thursdays thinking it would ensure success, and it ended up taking in the ratings. However, he couldn't admit failure and renewed it anyway.


    Basically, if you want to look at why these two shows got renewed, look no further than Paul Lee and his bias.

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  49. I wish that would help :)
    Forever's cancellation sucked the most.

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  50. Community was an experiment for yahoo screen and Mindy Project...I don't know why but it happened for some weird reason.


    I'll be honest here: you might be right that it's not a done deal because networks work in mysterious ways. Everything can happen but to be fair then: every show got another shot

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  51. The only chance it would have is if international sales really are amazing (most people don't realize that international revenue now outpaces domestic revenue for most studios). Even so, it's doubtful WB could take a big enough haircut to offer it at a competitive rate anywhere. If it were 2.5 or 3 seasons in, then yes, but financially I don't see it for such a low rated show. ABC made the right call.

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  52. Life would instantly get better if this show found a second season.

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  53. Karen Lowry-Thompson25 May 2015 at 19:11

    I didn't say it wasn't a procedural, I said it wasn't your everyday procedural :P The storyline was fresh and new, the acting was great and there was a lot of great chemistry to the cast. The stories didn't go stale, or try to mimic real life news. There were a lot of things that set Forever apart from the normal everyday procedural! :)

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  54. Besides Constantine, this cancellation hurt the most. Netflix picks this up and they have a subscriber for life!

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  55. Cult following and social media stats is the center square on reasons not to renew anything. In the end, it's meaningless.

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  56. There's a pretty big reason why Hulu especially and possibly Netflix could be interested. The major networks are on the verge of creating their own options to stay relevant in the age of streaming and binge-watching. CBS is going to do a HBO-like subscription program, where you can just watch everything online. NBC's idea with Aquarius (putting all the episodes online after the premiere) seems to be to use the show to get a read on how effective such a thing could be for them. If CBS and NBC do it, ABC will have to follow suit. Very soon (within a couple of years) there will be two ways to watch everything on network tv: you can watch it live, week-to-week, like you've always done, or you can binge it on the network's subscription site as much as you want. If you're Hulu and you see this coming on, think about what this does to your business: it renders it pretty much irrelevant. Who is going to pay for HuluPlus to watch one episode next-day after it airs on a network, when they can just put that $7.99 towards Fox.com and binge all the network's shows that month?


    What stops the mass exodus from places like Hulu? Original content. Hulu then has to have shows you can only *only* get on Hulu which drives audiences to stay there and keep their subscriptions. The major networks want to be Hulu & Netflix while Hulu & Netflix have to become original networks to keep viewers. This is why Hulu is interested in stuff like The Mindy Project. Shows with a cult following still have a shot now more than ever because it's easier to take on an established brand than to create a new brand from scratch. Forever might well be totally dead but it also might still have a shot.

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  57. Very true but *points at Reign and Galavant renewals*...

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  58. Emmanuella Rhodes25 May 2015 at 19:26

    Rather, it is the best of show, a global family of Forever but recognize that the struggle is an effort by many and the credit do not carry few persons

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  59. Galavant's only a few episodes and fills a scheduling bridge where they probably aren't going to get anything to rate any higher anyway. If they know they can't launch something else that would do better during that time of the year, why not renew what they've already got? American Crime has a shot to win them Emmys which possssssibly could up its ratings a little bit so that's another no brainer.

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  60. That I agree on, it was fresh and new.
    Sadly people didn't give it a chance (plus ABC pushed it after AoS...wich was a dumb af move)

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  61. Don't get jealous if someone has the same idea as you or others, you all should work together in this...I'm sorry to say this...already lost war

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  62. I'm still mad as f*ck at the Reign renewal....HOW?! HOHOOOOOOWW?!?!

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  63. I need "Mindy Project... I don't know why but it happened for some weird reason" on a tshirt. I feel like that sums up that show pretty well. :)

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  64. I swear it got renewed just to fuck with the color scheme on the SpoilerTV cancellation chart. They wanted to break up all that black at the top of the chart. This is really the only potential explanation.

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  65. The leadership at TNT wanted to go in a darker, edgier direction which is why they hired Reilly. Putting the blame on TNT for changing direction solely on Reilly is not accurate.

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  66. Good to know. Mental note: Buy all the Galavant music so we get a S3.

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  67. It was a weird move by Hulu, especially since...well....it's not a funny show. Flat jokes, terrible terrible acting and....well....Mindy Kalings horrible comedic delivery

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  68. BrittneyAngel2010 .25 May 2015 at 19:38

    When you added in DVR viewers and viewers not in the 'correct age demographic' then Forever averaged around 7 million viewers in the US. The show is also watched by millions in other countries. BTW, the 'correct age demographic' being the only demographic that counts is antiquated BS. I'm in the 'correct demographic age group' but my parents are not and they have way more money to spend then I do (and we all watched Forever).


    Also Forever was able to get all those viewers with basically no help from lazy ABC aka "Always Betrays Customers". ABC hardly ever had a TV promo for Forever and the ABC website showed clips for all their other shows but rarely showed a Forever clip.

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  69. I like Mindy Kaling but The Mindy Project is pretty terrible. Chris Messina's hotness/dancing ability couldn't get me through that trainwreck. They also had a great knack for getting rid of/toning down the parts of the show that were actually funny. But I guess some people who aren't us liked it since it's chugging along like it's the comedy version of The Killing.

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  70. You're right that the 18-49 demo is becoming more and more antiquated as a way of looking at things. Still important because if you can get younger people to watch stuff, then you're talking about people more comfortable with social media, which means they're marketing your product for you. But especially with fledging networks, the overall numbers matter just as much. Look at a case like Longmire. That show's core demographic was outside of the 18-49 which some thought meant it would be permanently put out to pasture when A&E dropped it. Netflix picked it up because they know that any audience right now is potentially a strong audience. Not every show needs to be Empire to be considered a success anymore.

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  71. Well, he took the job knowing in what direction they were headed, so captain of the ship and all that...

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  72. BrittneyAngel2010 .25 May 2015 at 20:04

    What is 'childish' is to post under an article about fans of show trying to save their show just to put the fans down, put the show down and tell the fans they are acting childish.

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  73. BrittneyAngel2010 .25 May 2015 at 20:14

    Cancelling a well written and acted show like Forever when crap reality TV shows like the Bachelor get a 20th season and stupid shows like Galavant get a second season demonstrates a depressing decline in the mentality and class of the US.

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  74. i always thought this show was "the new castle" but seeing all this love for it, i might actually watch just to see what all the fuss is about !

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  75. Ineke Morris-Verschuur25 May 2015 at 20:38

    Really hope another network picks up Forever. Love this show!

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  76. I am desperately hoping and praying that this amazing show is saved whether by ABC or another network. SOMEONE SAVE THIS BEAUTIFUL SHOW, PLEASE!! <3

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  77. It's a good damn show and it needs a 2 season to wrap up everything. In Spain it's a success on cable tv

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  78. I saw it as something similar to "The new Castle" as well... although I enjoyed it more than Castle.


    I think one of the biggest differences and reasons for the ratings disparity was Forever did not have a lead actor that already had a cult following like Nathan Fillion did going into Castle. Okay, maybe there were two dozen or so fans of The Fantastic Four's Mister Fantastic that followed him to Forever, but nothing like the Brown Coats of Firefly! XD

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  79. Karen Lowry-Thompson25 May 2015 at 21:11

    Which is kind of sad, considering he's such a phenomenal actor!

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  80. Agreed.
    His project choice has been very hit or miss for me, but his performance has always been good.


    Well, as good as the project allowed.....
    No one could be Emmy-worthy on Ringer! XD

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  81. Karen Lowry-Thompson25 May 2015 at 21:37

    So true! He was the only reason I got so far into the season on that one!

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  82. It looks like a good show with an interesting premise but i doubt that netflix will want to pick it up

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  83. Forever truly deserves a second season...I was crushed when ABC cancelled it. It was original, fresh and funny at times, with a great cast that actually had chemistry!

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  84. ĪĪ¹ĪŗĪæĪ»Ī±Ļ‚25 May 2015 at 22:03

    bring it back

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  85. I love Forever. It is my biggest heartache of the cancellation season too. However saying that this was ABC's worst decision, calling them short-sighted, and generally belittling the network is ridiculous. From a business standpoint, ABC did exactly the right thing and like it or not fans, TV is a business. Forever was ABC's second worst rated drama. It was only a tenth higher than Revenge, which was the lowest rated. Forever dropped half of its viewers from the pilot in one season. Of course, they cancelled it. Fans should be grateful that they didn't pull it early from the schedule and indeed aired more episodes than originally planned. If anything, fans of Forever ought to be grateful to ABC.


    Fan entitlement is starting to really bug me. Fans think that through social media, they ought to be able to tell writers what to do, drive storylines, and harrass actors who play characters they don't like. It's now beyond sad. Still I don't have anything against Save Our Show campaigns because they allow fans to come together as a group, grieve, and show their love for their shows. However, most are not grounded in reality. First off, the vast majority of people who watch TV do not go online to talk about it or vote in polls on it. Therefore, save our show polls mean nothing. To get 43% of a vote is meaningless if the total number of people who voted are a miniscule portion of the total TV viewing audience. I can poll my family and 75% will think that Forever should come back on the air but I doubt any network cares that 3/4 of my family likes the show. That's not a big enough sample size. The EW poll only had 20,104 voters and people were able to vote for more than one show so it is skewed already. The STV poll had a little over 9,000 votes. There are billions of people who watch TV.


    I will be the first to celebrate if Forever ends up making financial sense to some other network, but as far as I know there has never been an internet petition that has done anything in TV. Netflix isn't available in Asia, Africa, and half of Europe so any international fans from there won't mean squat to them. Being big in France is a real plus, but is it enough for Netflix to outweigh costs to produce the show? Two years ago the cheapest show for Netflix to produce cost almost $4 million per episode. I doubt it is any cheaper now. In fact, it's likely to be more expensive these days. Hulu Plus is now strictly in the US if I remember right so if it didn't get enough ratings here on ABC, why would they want it?


    I am tremendously sorry that Forever did not catch on with America's Nielsen viewers. It was a great show that I already miss. The relationship between Henry and Abe was one of the best one TV. However we had a satisfying conclusion and the show got more than a fair shake. Sometimes good shows die early. It's sad but it's not the first time and it won't be the last that a show I love has been cancelled before I was ready to see it go. I'm happy that its fans are banding together to celebrate their love for it but blaming ABC for cancelling it is naive and pointless. TV is a business and like all other businesses, it is based on the bottomline. Forever didn't make the financial cut. It sucks but that's business.

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  86. The Mindy Show was picked up because Universal, the company that produces it, needed it to get more episodes in order to get the big syndication bucks. It needs one more season, which means Universal practically gave the show to Hulu because they cost of producing the last season will be paid quickly by any syndication deal. I doubt that The Mindy Project would have been picked up at all if it didn't only need 21 episodes.

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  87. It's a CBS produced show in a network of WB hits. Plus it's rare that any show with 44 episodes be cancelled on The CW. On other networks, the magic syndicaiton number is 3 seasons. On the CW, it tends to be 2 seasons. Throw in the idea that they are about to see if The CW itself is going to be cancelled and anything that had even a remote chance at syndication got renewed.

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  88. That was my first response about TNT being a possible outlet for Forever. TNT has already cleaned house and things that are the Forever milieu seem to be out. TNT and USA have both made big changes in tone, one I'm not thrilled with for either newtwork.

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  89. Fantastic Four? Pish. Ioan Gruffudd will forever be Horatio Hornblower to me. :-P

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  90. We don't get Hulu in the UK, so I hope Netflix picks it up, as my wife loved it and was sad to see it end before it really got going.

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  91. i do recall castle's first season had mediocre ratings and then blew up to the phenomenon that it is now ... so maybe forever will follow suit ¯\_(惄)_/¯

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  92. Michelle Fletcher25 May 2015 at 23:07

    I absolutely love this show, fingers & toes crossed that it either comes back or gets picked up by another network!!!!

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  93. Casting my vote for TNT.

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  94. Lilith De Valois25 May 2015 at 23:40

    Fingers crossed here! o/

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  95. How did they blow it? Forever was a good show, but it had bad ratings and wasn't even ABC owned. And the "reality bull" does much better and is much cheaper

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  96. BrittneyAngel2010 .26 May 2015 at 00:13

    It is a sad world when crappy reality TV shows can get 20 seasons and a well written and well acted show like Forever is cancelled after one season.

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  97. They opted for hopefully better rated scripted fare as well. Much of ABC's schedule for the fall alone are filled with dramas and comedies, with only about 3-4 hours devoted to reality TV. Reality fare such as Wipe-Out, The Bachelorette et al are all relegated to the summer

    And besides, Forever is going to be replaced with another drama..

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  98. Grey's Anatomy has been around for 10-going for-11 seasons just as much as Survivor has been around for 30 (now going for 32) seasons in the past 15 years. Same goes for NCIS (11 seasons), Law and Order (20 seasons plus its spin-offs) and CSI (15 seasons plus its spin-offs).


    It's all about getting good ratings that would be more than enough for any show of any genre to justify a renewal from the network.

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  99. BrittneyAngel2010 .26 May 2015 at 00:20

    It's not the point that some written shows have survived. It's the point that crappy reality TV shows get 20 seasons and a well written and acted shows like Forever get cancelled. That says bad things about networks and viewers.

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  100. A show can last long if it's meeting whatever it is expected from them to meet by TPTB who greenlit them.


    Imagine Forever being a toy store, a store with a fair amount of inventory of quality products from choo-choo trains to dollhouses but there's not enough people buying their stock. The store's return of investment is diminishing in each passing week as competition is getting the bigger share of the market. Once a show is in the red, it will end up on a hole that would be difficult to crawl out from.


    It would take a miracle for the owner to put it back in the black, and that miracle must come from an investor who sees a potential in the store but is willing to lower his own expectations to meet the needed threshold.

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  101. If this was an ABC Studios production, the show would have been renewed. Because ABC has no upside in keeping the show alive. It was cancelled.

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  102. It's about money. It's not ABC's fault that one does well and the other doesn't.

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  103. BrittneyAngel2010 .26 May 2015 at 01:12

    You're missing the point. The fact that crappy reality TV shows get to continue and well written and acted show like Forever get cancelled is sad and depressing.


    The reasons it happens are IRRELEVANT.


    The ENTIRE POINT is that it is sad, depressing and horrible that it happens PERIOD.

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  104. BrittneyAngel2010 .26 May 2015 at 01:14

    Why it happens is IRRELEVANT.


    The fact that it happens at all is sad and says bad things about viewers and networks.

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  105. JoAnn Rencountre26 May 2015 at 01:40

    Thank you Lisa for a great article. Forever is a great show, I know some new network will pick it up.

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  106. JoAnn Rencountre26 May 2015 at 01:41

    Then you're really not following what is happening?? It will be picked up and watch the show, you wouldn't be saying that if you watched it. Egits.

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  107. Yep...browncoats got it through season 1, which gave people a chance to see the Castle & Beckett thing and the show blew up after that. Forever is getting a ton of attention now. If it gets picked up I'd bet even people who didn't watch it would check it out.

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  108. It seems to be a trend. Did you see the new dramas ABC picked up? Ugh! Unhappy people everywhere!

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  109. I will definitely be signing up for Netflix if they decide to pick-up "Forever." It was and still is my favorite.

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  110. Sadly depression seems to be the name of dramas these days. Here's hoping the trend moves on past quickly.

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  111. Honestly? I don't think it says much about the networks, given that they just produce whatever people want to watch. But I do think that it (sadly) says a lot about our society.

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  112. You may find this interview enlightening 'Meet the People Who Decide When and If Shows Live or Die' http://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/the-spin-off/meet-the-people-who-decide-when-and-if-shows-live-or-die/.VV0ogfJiA_k.twitter

    These decisions truly comes down to who owns the show and gets to monetize it. Unfortunately even though Forever is a better show with better ratings, ABC renews a show like American Crime because ABC own the show.

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  113. That was the first thing I saw him in as well...
    Just not sure there is a big Forester cult following in the US. XD

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  114. To be honest, I would never have gone to see Fantastic Four without Hornblower. He was my TV crush for a couple of years.

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  115. Lots of reality shows get canceled all the time: The Great American Bake-Off, The Glass House, Utopia, The Swan, Capture, The Taste, Expedition Impossible, Got to Dance US, The X-Factor USA, Kell on Earth, The City, Fly Girls, The Catalina, Breaking Pointe, True Beauty, Beauty and the Geek, Kid Nation, all future civilian seasons of The Apprentice and so much more.

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  116. I fell in love with this show in the first five minutes of watching it. What was ABC thinking!?

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  117. I am not holding my breath for it to be saved

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  118. NBC needed another season of TMP for syndication, and the offered it to Hulu with a lower licensing fee, and since Hulu already has the previous seasons, they took it.

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  119. I agree. I saw one episode and it's pretty damn terrible.

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  120. Reality shows are cheaper to produce than scripted shows, so there's that.

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  121. Why is happens is not irrelevant. here are actually more scripted shows on broadcast networks right now than reality. If Forever had good ratings, it would have been renewed. It didn't and was cancelled.

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  122. ABC made a business decision. The show had poor ratings and wasn't profitable for them and was cancelled.

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  123. Whoever picks it up will get a new, loyal customer in me. My favourite show!

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  124. Let's not forget Buffy, Baywatch and 21 Jump Street. :)

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  125. The fact that two shows have already been shopped around and picked up makes it statistically less probable that another show will get that chance.

    Yes, times are a-changing where this might become more common practice but it won't be a swift change, which means anything more than 2-3 shows successfully making this transition is unlikely at this point.

    And even when/if it becomes less rare not every show will be able to be salvaged.

    It's good to have hope and fight for your shows but in the end, the business decisions that usually lead to cancellations are much stronger than the fan commitment to a show.

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  126. well this article gets my hopes up. I was just having a conversation with another forever fan and I said I had doubts the fan campaign would work because I had not heard anything about network interest in the show and if their is even the rumor of interest some site somewhere reports it. I'm glad Forever has so much going for it. I love the show and have been watching since the pilot originally aired. I personally thought it was the best new show this year and I liked a lot of shows that started this year I hope Netflix or someone gets it in gear and makes an announcement.

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  127. I was about to post something similar but you just saved me some time here. So I'll just say:



    Excellently put *applause*

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  128. Amena Bollinger26 May 2015 at 11:43

    I think Dr. Morgan would disagree with you. "Whats keeps us alive, more important than blood or oxygen or even love is hope."

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  129. I was so disappointed when the show was canceled. More than any other show. I will definitely watch if it is picked up somewhere else!!

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  130. I always had an inkling ABC will have a surprise renewal, and thought Forever seems like the good candidate to do so. But instead they renew American Crime.

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  131. No it didn't. It was a success.

    “Castle” has placed a decent, though not overly spectacular, second place among the broadcasters in its Monday night 10 p.m. timeslot, averaging a 2.5 rating/7 share among adults 18-49 and 10.1 million viewers overall.

    http://variety.com/2009/scene/markets-festivals/abc-gives-full-season-order-to-castle-1118010177/

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  132. fingers crossed! Amen

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  133. Still hope for it too!

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  134. A. Your statistics aren't persuasive. _maybe_ if the two shows were only picked up by one network - but you vastly underestimate the ground swell in Hollywood.

    Here are just two excerpts from a recent article by Liam Boluk, head of original content at REDEF HQ:

    "As Amazon Studios head Roy Price told The Hollywood Reporter last year, this fundamentally rewrites the programming playbook:

    “Let’s say you had a show where 80 percent of the people you show it to think it’s pretty good. They might watch it, but none of those people think it’s a great show nor is it their favorite show. But then you have another show where only 30 percent of people like it. For every single one of them, they’re going to watch every single episode and they love it. Well, in an on-demand world, show No. 2 is more valuable.”

    ...content that connects with a passionate but niche audience becomes an asset – not a missed opportunity or failure that needs to “broaden its base” to be renewed."

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  135. you vastly underestimate the ground swell in Hollywood


    And, I am sorry to inform you that you vastly overestimate fan dedication, and underestimate what it takes to make a show...
    Yes, a passionate niche fanbase is very valuable, but it's not enough. Streaming has changed the game, and give the die-hard loyal audiences more "power" but there is more that goes into this, and sometimes -MOST times- it is not a sound business decision.



    Producing a show is not cheap. The logistics of that 30% of people that will tune in, might not be enough to pay for the damn show. And that is a hard reality.

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  136. Having worked in production and on those kinds of contracts, I know exactly what goes into making a show.

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  137. And you can honestly say this?

    Because I'm saying this as someone who also works in the business...

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  138. You keep saying they're crappy,and for you they are but its quite obvious that for many people they aren't crappy, and the ratings (for some reality shows) keep proving that point.


    Its always sad when a show you care about gets canceled.Write to ABC and voice your opinion.

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  139. Your statistics aren't persuasive. _maybe_ if the two shows were only picked up by one network


    Actually in this case you can't be looking on a "network by network" basis. You need to look at the whole field of the TV landscape in its whole.



    No one network would pickup more than one cancelled series anyway... streaming services? Maybe, but only because they operate differently.


    However: picking up others rejects makes you look bad in any situation, because it shows lack of faith in your current and in development projects.

    There needs to be some serious business incentive to make the decision viable.

    That's why my math has concluded that two to three shows being successfully shopped around is easily the maximum the industry will allow itself at this point.

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  140. Two questions then. Do you work in "traditional" media? Were you surprised when CBS went OTT?

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  141. while i do love forever, i don't think cancelling it was their "worst decision."

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  142. Cancelling Forever is not a bad choice. A show that drops below a 1 in its 1st season should be cancelled. coughTMOLcough

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  143. Bad ratings and they don't produce it so no syndication money.

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  144. 1) I've worked in traditional media (TV and advertising), new media (mostly webseries), I've done a bunch of music videos and I've done a lot of indie work.


    2) I wasn't surprised because I know as highly watched as CBS is it skews older, and I've also seen them trying to broaden their audience's spectrum... making its content accessible in a way that resonates with younger audiences is way to go about that for sure.

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  145. I'm surprised that you are so skeptical then. The "new" networks are content hungry, and an established show is easier/cheaper to get up and running - unless it's long in the tooth and has become top-heavy. My research - and more importantly my contacts - verify that there is a real chance for pick up here.

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  146. I'm skeptical because I know what that "easier/cheaper" means in the long run... and in the long run what can be presented as cheap and easy, actually isn't or the compromises to achieve getting the cheap and easy aren't worth it.

    Also there's my other argument from below: picking up someone elses rejects makes you look bad. It shows lack of faith in your current and in development projects.
    There needs to be some serious business incentive to make the decision viable.
    And frankly in this case the business incentive doesn't come off looking as undeniably appealing.

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  147. Forever had an attractive cast which probably explains why its fans were so enthusiastic. I'll bet more than a few were also shipping the Henry/Jo thread. However, that's no reason to overlook the frequently sketchy procedural storylines or the writers' inability to fully exploit the potential of the leading character's immortality. This is the second series in which Ioan Gruffudd has been undone by poor writing (the first was Ringer) and he deserves better material.

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  148. I didn't realize people actually liked this show. Still, there hardly appears to be a fanbase, and as a one-season show without heavy serialization, it's pretty unlikely to get any sort of continuation.

    Though, it does fit TNT's m.o. But could someone please explain to me how this is ABC's worst decision? They're certainly not losing anything. This is just sensationalized clickbait.

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  149. These types of save the show campaigns rarely work. Most networks don't like to pick up stuff that wasn't developed in house by their own creative teams. Yes there are a few exceptions like Cougar Town, Southland, The Killing and even Longmire. But honestly, I can't see anyone picking this up.

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  150. Did they renew any worse show? Based only on the finances and ratings 'cause better/worse show based on any show's merit is not objective.

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  151. American Crime is acclaimed by critics whereas Forever isn't. I think it was either American Crime or Forever and they just preferred to renew the acclaimed show which brings more money (I guess) than the other one.

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  152. L&O: CI wasn't really "revived" as NBC was the one to shift the show to USA since NBC owned it. But I agree with the rest here.

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  153. I'm surprised to hear that there is still hope as I thought the ratings were fairly bad and that's why it was cancelled, but I hope the fans get their wish and the article didn't just get everyone's hopes up. It's not often that shows can make a comeback but it's been happening lately...

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  154. Once it was decided that CASTLE would return w/Stana Katic, I think FOREVER's fate w/ABC was sealed. They attract a similar audience. But, the network doesn't really want two similar shows on back-to-back. ABC is a partial owner of Hulu. So, I don't think Hulu will pick it up. I actually wrote to MASTERPIECE exec producer, Rebecca Eaton, & asked PBS to consider it for their MYSTERY lineup. Regular PBS viewers already know him from the HORATIO HORNBLOWER series. And, if they episode number were reduced to 15, there's a good chance the series would be affordable to PBS.

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  155. I'd be willing to reestablish my subscription to Netflix if they pick it up.

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  156. Hopefully it ends up on TV or something. I don't have Netflix and only use the free version of Hulu.

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  157. Leonard Moreno27 May 2015 at 05:30

    Even though the has similarities to Highlander, it still makes for an entertaining, witty and fun crime show. Let this not be the end of a show with so much Potential. Don't be Fox and pull a Firefly.

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  158. This show had a growing fan base. It wouldn't surprise me if it gets another chance somewhere other than ABC. I will cross my fingers! Sign the petition if you have not already.

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  159. antonio dueƱas27 May 2015 at 19:15

    I hope it is picked up...Why the way,the link to your previous article shows Candy Crush instead.

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  160. Robin Carol Kahler28 May 2015 at 05:06

    PLEASE>>>>>>>>>>>tired of watching the recorded past shows over and over....seems like FOREVER!

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  161. Tonya Papanikolas29 May 2015 at 05:30

    Great article, Lisa. Thanks for writing this!

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  162. Robert Stukenbroeker29 May 2015 at 20:12

    Also the show Unforgettable. It was canceled and revived twice.

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  163. Thanks for sharing! I love Hulu plus especially because I can watch the latest Family Guy episodes 1 day after they air. If you live outside USA like me, you can use UnoTelly or other similar tools to access Hulu Plus overseas.

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  164. Very glad to see this article - the show definitely needs to be picked up. It's just so consistently good.

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  165. I've watched Castle for years, and it's a good guilty pleasure for me. I enjoyed Forever's first season much more than Castles (I almost didn't even go back to watch Castle after the first season). Forever just feels like there's more to work with and down the road, just feels more grounded. Sure, the guy dies and comes back, but it still makes more sense walking around with an ME on cases than a writer (a fact they long since hand-waved away on Castle). Castle was always a show I watched when I got around to it. I made time every week for Forever, even before I sat and realized how much I was enjoying it. Forever deserves more time, it's interesting enough that I want to know what will happen, but procedural enough that it's not too intimidating for people to jump into.

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  166. Any news? I really hope someone picks up this show. I loved it.

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  167. No - a new episode each week is episodic, which is not the same as procedural. I think you mean formulaic instead of procedural, where someone dies or is found dead, clues lead to a killer, killer is put behind bars. So yes it is formulaic, but the same way that every other crime drama is formulaic.

    Since there are dozens of successful formulaic(and episodic) crime dramas, the fact it is formulaic has no weight it success, or lack there-of. What makes or breaks a show is the drama, whether that is the quirky characters, entertaining premise and/or great scripts.

    As for needing a "motivational plot" Law an Order doesn't have a motivational plot (I'm assuming you mean an underlying sub-plot linking otherwise disjointed episodes). CSI and NCSI have many minor, normally season limited sub-plots.

    I would claim that the show "should" get a second season simply because it has a passionate fan base. Star Trek was almost cut early due to low ratings, other shows (like Firefly) had low viewers but were so popular that the DVD sales outstripped live-tv viewing and forced a movie. So not only should Forever get a second season, but given the massive international petition on change.org, I'd say it is inevitable.

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  168. I hate to see the show go away forever.. so please follow the link and vote so that there can be a season 2

    https://www.change.org/p/abc-s-forever-to-continue-for-another-season

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  169. The show is great and compelling. All it has to do is be picked up by USA and a smash it will stay.

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