The Queen of Ska on James Baldwin, punk tailoring – and her musical contemporary Debbie Harry
Born Belinda Magnus in Romford, London, then renamed Pauline Vickers by her adoptive parents, Pauline Black chose her stage name when she co-founded 2-Tone ska band the Selecter in 1979. Soon the band had a hit with On My Radio, and Black earned the nickname Queen of Ska. The group split in 1982 after making two albums, but have re-formed a number of times. Black has acted in films, TV and theatre; her role as Billie Holiday in All or Nothing at All won her the 1991 Time Out best actress award. In 2011 she released her memoir, Black By Design. The Selecter’s new album, Daylight, is released on 6 October by DMF Records.
This is based on James Baldwin’s unfinished manuscript, Remember This House. Samuel Jackson’s narration intercuts seamlessly with Baldwin speaking. The message to white folks in America is: “I am not your Negro. If you call me that, that’s your problem.” Baldwin takes apart the whole notion of the N-word, and says that as a black person you can’t live the American dream; what you’re living is a nightmare. I had the privilege of meeting Baldwin in 1985 – he was a lovely man, but one of those people that can see right through you – you’d better come with your best game.
I suppose it’s a bit strange that I should like what is essentially a male fashion line, but somehow it’s a non-gender thing – I really love that 60s slimline trouser look: suits, a hat, the accessories. Avec Ces Freres represent everything I like about fashion – edgy cool, hats. My favourite item I got from them is a jacket I wear on stage. Under the lapels it’s embroidered and it says “punk tailoring”; you can wear it with lapels up or down, so it’s eminently adaptable. And their tailoring is just exquisite.
I was slightly disappointed that for the first few rooms you heard Martin Luther King’s “I have a dream” speech – I felt like you were going into a place that was full of struggle, sometimes armed struggle, and that speech appeals so much more to a white narrative of the civil rights movement. But overall the exhibition was stunning and I learned a lot. It’s rare to see photography of black people by black people. White photographers invariably put me against a white background, but here black faces were against dark backgrounds, therefore the face emerged, like the moon coming out at night. It gave a completely different aesthetic.
The Selecter and Blondie go way back – we shared a record company at one point, and we supported them at the Hammersmith Odeon in 1980. I met Debbie Harry again in France about four years ago, and we just sat in our dressing room like two older ladies of music, and sized each other up, which was quite an entertaining experience. I got an invite to their show in London a few months ago, and it was wonderful to see them after all these years: to see how the songs you knew way back when had developed, and how they’re still writing new material and staying current. That was a particularly special thing for me this year.
I kept seeing the poster and eventually sussed out it wasn’t just the face of a young black man, but a composite of three stages of his life. I found that so intriguing, and decided I’d watch the movie. It was entrancing from the first frame. It’s a wonderful story of a young gay black man in America, and how he dealt with the unfortunate lifestyles of the people he was surrounded by. The scene where the two young men come together in the moonlight was so excellently played, so gentle, it was poetic. It thoroughly deserved the Oscar.
Berkeley campus is one of those places that has loomed large in my consciousness ever since I heard about the student anti-war protests there in the 60s. The Selecter were out there supporting Rancid and the Dropkick Murphys last month and it was the first time I’d been to Berkeley, so I took myself to all those places, like Telegraph Avenue. The campus is kind of strange, full of old sculptures and Greek pillars dotted about. We played at the Greek, which is a fantastic place – an amphitheatre, just carved into this rising grassy slope.
I’m not into apps, but my watch broke and someone said: “Why don’t you get an Apple Watch? There’s an excellent exercise app on it.” Well, I am 63 now and still getting up on stage and doing active things – you have to keep reasonably fit. Since I’ve had this watch I’ve been out walking, running, bike riding and goodness knows what. I can even do a gig and see exactly how many calories I’ve burnt, what my heart rate was. It’s the ultimate motivation to do some exercise, and cheaper than a gym.
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